Comments on: Random Thought: On an Alien Civilization http://andrewfreiday.com/2007/03/21/random-thought-on-an-alien-civilization/ Home of Andrew Freiday. Just another useless blog on the Internet. Programming, music, photography, and other crap you probably won't read. Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:35:07 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.7 by: Bruce Duensing http://andrewfreiday.com/2007/03/21/random-thought-on-an-alien-civilization/#comment-2594 Sun, 25 Mar 2007 18:12:02 +0000 http://andrewfreiday.com/2007/03/21/random-thought-on-an-alien-civilization/#comment-2594 Robert, Your post indirectly brought to mind what perhaps is a universal language..music..which can have multiple threads in sync..or at least a form of music...another interessting point you brought up..we assume a marconi model of transmission which even at this point in time seems rather antiquated...I keeping thinking of a lazer disc..light as a natural carrier of waves... Robert,
Your post indirectly brought to mind what perhaps is a universal language..music..which can have multiple threads in sync..or at least a form of music…another interessting point you brought up..we assume a marconi model of transmission which even at this point in time seems rather antiquated…I keeping thinking of a lazer disc..light as a natural carrier of waves…

]]> by: Robert O. Myers http://andrewfreiday.com/2007/03/21/random-thought-on-an-alien-civilization/#comment-2354 Fri, 23 Mar 2007 20:36:13 +0000 http://andrewfreiday.com/2007/03/21/random-thought-on-an-alien-civilization/#comment-2354 Oh and I forgot. Sound may not be the vehicle for information exchange. They use electromagnetic or modulated static fields (including light.) This may mean language may be coded either in a digital code, or as a protocol with many layers to handle emotion, time, tense, etc. Oh and I forgot.
Sound may not be the vehicle for information exchange. They use electromagnetic or modulated static fields (including light.)
This may mean language may be coded either in a digital code, or as a protocol with many layers to handle emotion, time, tense, etc.

]]> by: Robert O. Myers http://andrewfreiday.com/2007/03/21/random-thought-on-an-alien-civilization/#comment-2353 Fri, 23 Mar 2007 20:31:50 +0000 http://andrewfreiday.com/2007/03/21/random-thought-on-an-alien-civilization/#comment-2353 Off the top of my little brain rambling... Also, we assume their brains work like ours. They may not just have two brain halves like us. Even between humans, there are large differences in how we analyze our environment. Some people think mainly in linear maner. Others don't. What if they were extremely shy. Or what if their social interactions were dominated by jokes and puns. I studied compiler writing and the subjects of formal grammers and parsing: Maybe they have conversations with multiple treads on different aspects of the subject (all threads multiplexed together.) Also, we alter our speech tone to add meaning to our conversations. Their tone changes may have very different modification to meaning. Maybe even altering the grammer. Their speech may have grammars that can not be parsed by our simple minds because they may have extremely complex parsing rules which may rely on very detailed context rules. Maybe their conversations have silarities to computer languages (or state machines.) In conclusion ET's may have to dumb down any conversation with us, like we do when we talk to a child, or a person with certain types of brain damage. Even if translators were available, much of the meaning would be lost. Either by the translation limitations, or by us not understanding the social context that they operate. Off the top of my little brain rambling…

Also, we assume their brains work like ours. They may not just have two brain halves like us. Even between humans, there are large differences in how we analyze our environment. Some people think mainly in linear maner. Others don’t.
What if they were extremely shy. Or what if their social interactions were dominated by jokes and puns.

I studied compiler writing and the subjects of formal grammers and parsing:
Maybe they have conversations with multiple treads on different aspects of the subject (all threads multiplexed together.)
Also, we alter our speech tone to add meaning to our conversations. Their tone changes may have very different modification to meaning. Maybe even altering the grammer.
Their speech may have grammars that can not be parsed by our simple minds because they may have extremely complex parsing rules which may rely on very detailed context rules. Maybe their conversations have silarities to computer languages (or state machines.)

In conclusion ET’s may have to dumb down any conversation with us, like we do when we talk to a child, or a person with certain types of brain damage. Even if translators were available, much of the meaning would be lost. Either by the translation limitations, or by us not understanding the social context that they operate.

]]> by: Bruce Duensing http://andrewfreiday.com/2007/03/21/random-thought-on-an-alien-civilization/#comment-2323 Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:51:56 +0000 http://andrewfreiday.com/2007/03/21/random-thought-on-an-alien-civilization/#comment-2323 I think the challenge that you posed to our intellects is long overdue. There is an irony that when you consider that all aspects of the natural world, we tend to compartmentalise components, divide them by segmentation, label them in a empirical conceptual model of reality. I think it's a safe bet, in other words, that there are no artificial distinctions as we imagine them to be, rather an interlocked reciprocal relationship between dreaming, waking and daytime awareness that is present.Hypnosis is an apt example of this. The same applies in the visible world..you have concrete perceptions of apparently solid objects, you have sensate awareness of invisible "solid" objects like air...you have the inside and outside, etc. What I think is happening is a form of life that is natural inasmuch as it exists, but defies our conceptual model of what a sentinent being we have never met should "appear" to be. What I am saying I think we are dealing with a form of life that can travel vast distances, etc and change it's appearance by either a reactionary or pro-active process when we come into "contact" with it. This goes straight to heart of some of our most difficult, dare I say, impossible questions..can a sentinent being exist without the need of a corporal body to process it's needs. To me. its the 500 pound elephant in the room, that we would prefer not to deal with as we are at a loss to catagorise it, so we fall back on demons, spacemen, time travelers..understandably..but none of these really fit. Jacques Vallee penetrated this territory..and for my money, none of our traditional scenarios fit their behavior which to us is nonsensical...by our standards of behavior. I say this behavior is not a stand alone intent, motive, plan etc...it is we who are attempting to define a reality so far out of the box that I think is reflected in the huge variety of contradictory accounts. It's like the physics experiments on the subatomic level. They set up experiment X, predict outcome A and sure enough it's outcome A..Same experiment, now we predict outcome B..wait a minute..now its outcome B..I think more can be learned from physics than any other scientific discipline..when it comes to unraveling this situation. When you read physics texts, alot of confounding behavior that is observed on a subatomic level corresponds to the UFO patterns...As for time..as it has been said..time is the great subjective in perception etc..measuring it in a sense is a fools errand..as it has no 'solid" consistant reality distinct from perception.. I think the challenge that you posed to our intellects is long overdue. There is an irony that when you consider that all aspects of the natural world, we tend to compartmentalise components, divide them by segmentation, label them in a empirical conceptual model of reality.
I think it’s a safe bet, in other words, that there are no artificial distinctions as we imagine them to be, rather an interlocked reciprocal relationship between dreaming, waking and daytime awareness that is present.Hypnosis is an apt example of this. The same applies in the visible world..you have concrete perceptions of apparently solid objects, you have sensate awareness of invisible “solid” objects like air…you have the inside and outside, etc. What I think is happening is a form of life that is natural inasmuch as it exists, but defies our conceptual model of what a sentinent being we have never met should “appear” to be. What I am saying I think we are dealing with a form of life that can travel vast distances, etc and change it’s appearance by either a reactionary or pro-active process when we come into “contact” with it. This goes straight to heart of some of our most difficult, dare I say, impossible questions..can a sentinent being exist without the need of a corporal body to process it’s needs. To me. its the 500 pound elephant in the room, that we would prefer not to deal with as we are at a loss to catagorise it, so we fall back on demons, spacemen, time travelers..understandably..but none of these really fit. Jacques Vallee penetrated this territory..and for my money, none of our traditional scenarios fit their behavior which to us is nonsensical…by our standards of behavior. I say this behavior is not a stand alone intent, motive, plan etc…it is we who are attempting to define a reality so far out of the box that I think is reflected in the huge variety of contradictory accounts. It’s like the physics experiments on the subatomic level. They set up experiment X, predict outcome A and sure enough it’s outcome A..Same experiment, now we predict outcome B..wait a minute..now its outcome B..I think more can be learned from physics than any other scientific discipline..when it comes to unraveling this situation. When you read physics texts, alot of confounding behavior that is observed on a subatomic level corresponds to the UFO patterns…As for time..as it has been said..time is the great subjective in perception etc..measuring it in a sense is a fools errand..as it has no ’solid” consistant reality distinct from perception..

]]> by: Bruce Duensing http://andrewfreiday.com/2007/03/21/random-thought-on-an-alien-civilization/#comment-2242 Thu, 22 Mar 2007 16:20:18 +0000 http://andrewfreiday.com/2007/03/21/random-thought-on-an-alien-civilization/#comment-2242 Some uneducated guesses..you pose some very interesting questions...all of which are valid. Time measurement would be dependant on planetary rotation. Biological clocks as they relate to lifespan on the other hand would be assumed to be dependant on this rotational period as well. A slow rotational speed might translate into a slower clock hence a longer life. Anyone for 2,700 years? However is sleep a universal biological mechcanism? If so, then reconsider rotation rates in light of this. consideration or factor is ususally overlooked..the food chain.Using physics to focus on the transmission and storage of energy...Our sun uses gases to produce radio energy that is transformed back into a atmospheric gas, which then in a denser form to water, to crystal, to rock to metal. Then upward it goes into microscopic to plant to invertibrate to vertibrate. I am simplifying this. We fit interlocked at the apex of natures transformational process of energy. In other words we eat all the catagories to produce and transform this energy. One could conclude this would apply to an alien species. But..as a devil's advocate, what is their food source..we assume it is much like ours..perhaps it's not. Perhaps what we conceptualize as manditory requirements for life are arbitrary requirements...such as atmosphere...perhaps they have "other" catagories due to planetary development Why is spoken language a necessity? We know of no alternatives based on our own biology...particularly our sensate mechcanisms..what if these were developed to a greater extent...perhaps leading to a greater instinctual perception we consider extra-sensory. I think of Krishnamurti's theory..awareness proceeds thought..a thought occurs as an after effect as an adaptive mechcanism of our sensate awareness..to "others" we cannot reach otherwise. Our sense of self in individualistic terms need not apply...a written set of symbols in sensate terms rather than intellectual props may be in order..as it relates to "things" I suggest it may not be us who does not understand them as our egos may be suggesting but they do not understand us. It may be a one way street biased toward a lack of comprehension on either side. If behavioral characteristics evidenced by "others" not familiar with our psychological weaknesses may be easily construed as insanity. Take a process that occurs on the sun, bring it to earth and turn living matter to dead inorganic life. Sounds like a plan? Some uneducated guesses..you pose some very interesting questions…all of which are valid.

Time measurement would be dependant on planetary rotation. Biological clocks as they relate to lifespan on the other hand would be assumed to be dependant on this rotational period as well. A slow rotational speed might translate into a slower clock hence a longer life. Anyone for 2,700 years? However is sleep a universal biological mechcanism? If so, then reconsider rotation rates in light of this. consideration or factor is ususally overlooked..the food chain.Using physics to focus on the transmission and storage of energy…Our sun uses gases to produce radio energy that is transformed back into a atmospheric gas, which then in a denser form to water, to crystal, to rock to metal. Then upward it goes into microscopic to plant to invertibrate to vertibrate. I am simplifying this. We fit interlocked at the apex of natures transformational process of energy. In other words we eat all the catagories to produce and transform this energy. One could conclude this would apply to an alien species. But..as a devil’s advocate, what is their food source..we assume it is much like ours..perhaps it’s not. Perhaps what we conceptualize as manditory requirements for life are arbitrary requirements…such as atmosphere…perhaps they have “other” catagories due to planetary development Why is spoken language a necessity? We know of no alternatives based on our own biology…particularly our sensate mechcanisms..what if these were developed to a greater extent…perhaps leading to a greater instinctual perception we consider extra-sensory. I think of Krishnamurti’s theory..awareness proceeds thought..a thought occurs as an after effect as an adaptive mechcanism of our sensate awareness..to “others” we cannot reach otherwise. Our sense of self in individualistic terms need not apply…a written set of symbols in sensate terms rather than intellectual props may be in order..as it relates to “things” I suggest it may not be us who does not understand them as our egos may be suggesting but they do not understand us. It may be a one way street biased toward a lack of comprehension on either side. If behavioral characteristics evidenced by “others” not familiar with our psychological weaknesses may be easily construed as insanity. Take a process that occurs on the sun, bring it to earth and turn living matter to dead inorganic life. Sounds like a plan?

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